Sidereal, and there's a story about it, in Tropical/Traditional, I have a Leo ASC. Sidereal astrology ignores this and continues to use the Fixed Stars in the same way as they were 2,115 years ago in 100 BC. Make a list of your planets and their degrees as shown below. Without the aid of telescopes or modern technology they calculated that the orientation of the equinoxes to the fixed stars precedes or moves backwards through the zodiac at a rate of about 50.3 seconds per year, or about 1 degree every 72 years. As tempting as it is for tropical astrologers to reference constellational images, its problematic on a conceptual level. You should definitely seek advice from Patrick Watson. My consultation went really well. This is what I think the relationship is like between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. The whole sign house system With the Whole Signs House system, each house begins at 0 degrees of the sign. Sidereal zodiac sun sign is used in Indian astrology. Without this understanding its easy to think that one system is superior or inferior to the other and disregard their respective places in the world of astrology. Historically, its generally agreed, that the two zodiacs were in alignment with one another about the year 285 A.D. with both sidereal and tropical ephemeris listing the passage of the Sun into Aries at the Spring equinox. I knew that if I was ever going to get a reading it had to be with an astrologer that practiced and worked with the Hellenistic techniques - the most accurate techniques I believe are around today in the astrological world -. 6 Tropical Virgo will be impeccably prepared anytime it has to face the outside world, under the "rule" of curious Mercury. Example Calculations:Tropical Positions Sidereal PositionsAsc: 11 Gemini 23 = 18 TaurusSun: 14 Scorpio 23 = 21 LibraMoon: 10 Virgo 23 = 17 LeoMercury: 28 Libra 23 = 5 LibraVenus: 8 Libra 23 = 15 VirgoMars: 25 Capricorn 23 = 2 CapricornJupiter: 9 Pisces 23 = 16 AquariusSaturn: 24 Aquarius 23 = 1 AquariusNorth Node: 18 Sagittarius 23 = 5 ScorpioSouth Node: 18 Gemini 23 = 5 Taurus(Optional)Uranus: 24 Leo 23 = 1 LeoNeptune: 3 Libra 23 = 10 VirgoPluto: 14 Virgo 23 = 21 Leo. This makes accurate measurements meaningless and arbitrary, because meaning can be derived from any chart regardless of if its the right one or not, as long as its the one you saw in that moment. Just . 25 Feb 2023 23:31:08 Whos fixed now, bitch?!? With these people you'd noticed they're over thinkers because their mindset is to always pay close attention to details. What happened next? The stars (and the constellations) are furthest away and so represent the highest or purest ideals, but our Sun is also a star and is also the one most intimately acquainted with our planet on a geophysical and metaphysical level. The tropical zodiac would need new names for its signs to properly differentiate itself from constellations and the sidereal zodiac. I highly recommend a reading with Patrick. hobbies, I don't usually watch astrology videos. These answers are mesmerising but providing little context on knowing your personal self in an individual level, if not making it more confusing. It cannot be meaningfully done. Then the sidereal zodiac could be rooted to a more truly fixed point which honors the sidereal tradition of nakshatras. Read More. Mark you calendars! Heres how the constellation of Leo has changed/will change over 200,000 years, from 50,000 BCE to 150,000 CE: Fixed stars? They have the same names as sidereal signs because they used to coincide, but to be properly distinguished they should have different names. The exclusively divinatory view of astrology is problematic for the technical aspects and real world application of astrology, and it pisses on the legacy of ancient skywatchers who toiled to make sense of cosmic mechanics and who first noticed the phases of the wandering stars correlating with events on Earth. The Debate TodayThe debate between the two zodiacs is, of course, centered around one main question, how can both systems be right? How can I be both an Aries in the Western system and a Pisces in the Vedic system? Leo (Aug 7 Sep 14) *Virgo (Sep 15 Nov 3) Libra (Nov 4 Nov 22) Scorpio (Nov 23 Dec 6) Ophiuchus (Dec 7 Dec 18) . You would be Virgo ascendant, if at the time of your birth, the sign Virgo was rising from above the ground, in a way similar to the rising of he sun. What it means to be a tropical sun sign Virgo and a sidereal sun sign Leo.Aries/Pisces: https://youtu.be/WRxYdrq30LQTaurus/Aries: https://youtu.be/bgxRNxCX. That Tropical Virgo to Sidereal Leo switch will never click in my birth chart lmaooo I've been looking at that shit for 10 years now waiting to feel it I see it in so many other Sidereal Leos but never in myself like not even a little bit. He's a really cool guy with great character. Up until the last century or so, before the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, the classical rulerships of the signs were used in both systems. ever done for myself. The sun takes longer than 30 days to travel through the constellation of Virgothe largest constellation of the zodiacbut only a . That is only 12 days! with astrology, theres always a conflict of fate vs free will. DRACONIC: Capricorn Asc Sagittarius Sun, Venus, Mercury, Saturn 11H Ophiuchus: December 7 to . For the same reason, Ayanamsha can be simply called the difference of degree between tropical and sidereal planetary positions, whereas the sidereal is true and shows actual planetary degrees. I was at first a little nervous to do so, since this is not something I do often, and I didnt really know what to expect, but I found that Just as the Earth-Sun relationship is stable and unchanging, so would the tropical zodiac reflect the regularity of life on the ship. She rules Libra, . There are two Zodiac systems that correspond to the two schools of astrology tropical and . This would reflect their incidental importance to a particular time and place rather than bearing eternal significance. And as others have said, he has a great sense of humor; in my opinion, the value of that cannot be overstated! Most astrologers, even if theyre exclusively tropical or sidereal, dont want to write off the other as just wrong. Im very pleased with and thankful for the natal consultation I had with Patrick Watson; he provided super interesting. By this time Sidereal Astrology already thousands of years of conscious belief invested in its workings. Each zodiac sign is given 30 of space in the tropical zodiac (12 x 30 = 360), so that the signs always match the seasons: Aries to . highly recommend him. It wouldnt invalidate practice of sidereal astrology because the findings made with it would relate to whats archetypally incidental. This means in 25,920 years, the tropical zodiac will have made a full rotation against a given fixed point in space. 4) I accept Patrick Watsons right to refuse service and provide a full refund on the basis of any ethical, legal or other concerns about my electional request. Perhaps like the lunar Nodes, these could be seen as access points to the Earthly sphere. This would work long into the future but eventually, over long periods of time as the stars shift position, they could conceivably move into a new sidereal/galactic sign. I really like his timing techniques. As weve progressed, we now are aware of all of these little nuances of charting the sky (aka more precise). This is why some argue that your Vedic chart can be so accurate for prediction with actual events on Earth and your Western chart is better for describing the psychological effects the actual events may have on your psyche. I know there are some divisions within the community of sidereal astrologers on this topic, and I am not a siderealist, but as an outsider there seems to be a pretty clear solution to all the different anayamsas out there. This is clearly the better option. These events would be concurrent with when tropical astrologers attach significance to cardinal ingresses. Theyre like a couple that got married and at first it was amazing. Western astrology makes use of the tropical zodiac, an evenly-split 360 circle around the heavens, with the 0 Aries point beginning at the spring equinox. My opinion here, is that the sidereal zodiac (and the whole house system) provides us an accurate, albeit not precise view of the cosmos. Venus entered Sidereal Leo on August 31 and leaves to Sidereal Virgo on September 11th, 2022. Having a rectification chart done with Patrick availed me the opportunity to connect deeply with the aspects of my. Viewed from the Earth, the Sun appears to move through the belt . You may have heard of the term golden ratio aka Fibonacci series. The twelfth year, like Pisces, has qualities of dissolution and death before the rebirth again with the next Jupiter return. I mean, I think tropical Leo is still going to be tropical Leo even now that Regulus is in tropical Virgo, as just tropical Virgo's now going to have this very specifically lion-like star in it that it hasn't had before. Whether you rotate the base to get your sidereal Vedic chart or the tropical Western the clock still works at least symbolically if not literally because its based on a true fundamental pattern. Im not sure how far we could take the analogy, but keeping it within the framework of astrology itself makes my brain happy ^_^. a) Tropical zodiac (Astrological) is based on the seasons - Vernal Equinox is fixed as 0 Aries (The 1st Fruit day) b) Sidereal zodiac (Astronomical) takes into account Precession of Equinoxes and shifts 0 Aries back by cca 1-2 days. Under the tropical impeccably dressed Virgo lies the sidereal Leo and Chiron (it's beyond stupid, but I have to . However, if you asked someone in India whats your sign? they would likely assume you mean their Moon sign, since Vedic astrology is a Moon-based system and its primary predictive systems are based on the Moon. Optional: Various Ayanamsas. I hope to dialogue more with you brother. Vedic Astrology has to its credit about seven thousand years and millions of believers pouring conscious energy into the mold formed of its mythology. Gemini: June 20 to July 16. Taurus: May 13 to June 19. This is because most people interested in Vedic astrology were born closer to 1950. When taken together over a period of 5 million years (a cosmic blip) it looks completely chaotic, more like an aquarium. I walked away from our session with a better sense of who I am as well as my direction in life. So it doesnt matter if you use the sidereal or tropical zodiac because you might as well be divining the skidmarks in a toilet bowl and it would be equally valid as a divinatory tool. I loved your essay/article as Ive been perplexed by the differences in natal charts in the tropical and sidereal. From the sidereal perspective, this could be done in a similar way but the rate of change would be much, much slower, and it would only work if the galactic center were used as the anchor point. 100% of his answers to the question Horary are compatible with my life. Referred to as "Sidereal" astrology, this other system uses dates for each Zodiac sign that are different from those used in the Tropical method. The main difference that tropical has from the sidereal is a 24-degree discrepancy that affects the former's calculation of the celestial bodies. It spans the 150-180th degree of the zodiac, between 152.75 and 180 degree of celestial longitude, which the Tropical zodiac the Sun transits this area on average between August 23 to September 22 each year. If you are a Tropical Virgo, you are likely to be a Sidereal Leo. The difference is the tropical system is based on a fixed astrological map of the stars as they were around 0 AD. Tropical Zodiac versus Sidereal Zodiac Both the sidereal zodiac and the tropical zodiac get there basis from the constellation zodiac. I was referred to Patrick for a reading, because I was specifically interested in a fusion of chart-reading and. Use the following dates for the ayanamsha as a starting point: January 1st 1940 23 degrees 01 minutesJanuary 1st 1950 23 degrees 09 minutesJanuary 1st 1960 23 degrees 18 minutesJanuary 1st 1970 23 degrees 26 minutesJanuary 1st 1980 23 degrees 34 minutes, 4 minutes 11 seconds per 5 years1 minute 40 seconds per 2 years50 seconds per 1 year4 seconds per month. Here is Part 2 - which includes some very helpful animations. I really enjoyed his consultation and. This correlates with the major seasonal changes on Earth. . The easiest way is to just roll back to charting how the cosmos was charted by the ancients and go that route. The sidereal zodiac needs an unambiguous anchor. Zodiacal motion runs opposite of diurnal motion. This is why I think Western astrology makes sense even though it uses a symbolic zodiac. well, here are two fates presented before you; now you get to exercise your free will. Ayana means precession and amsha means part or portion. The term refers to the number degrees difference between the Spring Equinox and the 1st degree of Aries. So much confusion out there. The tropical zodiac remains valid because it was born in a particular era whose imprint remains relevant throughout all time, just the same way as an individuals natal chart is imprinted upon their character throughout their entire life. Here is Part 1 of a live video presentation on the topic of Sidereal and Tropical Zodiacs in Vedic Astrology: Sidereal or Tropical Zodiac in Vedic Astrology. From what we can see, the sidereal zodiac is considered fixed because the sky today looks remarkably similar to the one from 2000 years ago. I. E. lets spend 15min talking about what the 8th house represents versus what this means for me. Both forms of astrology contain signs named after constellations. From the perspective of the tropical zodiac, the stars gradually advance through the solar-derived signs. Not only was the consultation both fun and interesting but Patricks feedback for the questions I asked him was invaluable. Would do again 10/10! 2) Timing recommendations provided by this electional service are based on Patrick Watsons opinion of astrological factors and are not guarantees of desired results, and are not intended to contradict, supersede or be in any way a substitute for the advice of qualified professionals in other fields such as medicine, law or finance, etc. Time (local time) h min. Interestingly, due to the precession of the equinox, the Sun will be at the 1st degree of Libra at the spring equinox in about 11,200 years! Tropical shows us whats always going to be true, sidereal shows us whats true in this era. A lot to think about. In order to get some more perspective on this question, were going to have to zoom out in time and space to go beyond the Ptolemaic universe to see whats really going on. More like Exceedingly Slow Stars. Sidereal vs. Even though we know our solar system is heliocentric, the geocentric model is still meaningful insofar as it reflects the sky as we see it from Earth. Isnt one enough? . In astrology, sidereal and tropical are terms that refer to two different systems of ecliptic coordinates used to divide the ecliptic into twelve "signs". For instance, the Sun passing into Aries conveys the qualities of Spring active, energetic, vigorous creative new life etc. It should be envisioned and understood as a solar zodiac, a construct explicitly derived from the Earth-Sun relationship and distinct from stars. His reading for me was profound and answered many questions I had about trends. As per Vedic astrology - Sidereal zodiac, the individual is a Leo. Western astrology is historically based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos (2nd century CE), which in turn was a continuation of Hellenistic and ultimately Babylonian traditions.. Western astrology is largely horoscopic, that is, it is a form of divination based on the construction of a horoscope for an exact moment, such as . An ascendant or lagna or rising sign is the sign that was rising above the ground on the eastern horizon at the time of birth of a native. In particular we are going to focus on the meaning of Saturn in Pisces from an inner perspective, as an impulse leading us towards spiritual responsibility. They are usually warm, sunny, funloving and generous people. I can share more of this if youd like. The Tropical Zodiac is based on the seasons in the Northern Hemisphere and is the system used in Western Astrology. Over the years, the stars have slowly changed location relative to Earth, which means . Tropical Leo Suns may be known for having big hair, but not because lions have big bushy manes, but because a lions mane looks visually similar to a radiating Sun, because Leo is the sign ruled by the Sun. When considering that different cultures have had the same instinct to find patterns and fashion myths out of the stars, we could come away with the notion that there is something about the stars which represent something eternal. Western astrology is the system of astrology most popular in Western countries. Virgo Asc Cancer Sun, Venus, Mercury 11H Capricorn Moon 5H Virgo Mars 12H Taurus Jupiter, Chiron, MC, SN 9H Scorpio Uranus, NN 3H Leo Saturn 11H Sagittarius Neptune 4H Libra Pluto 2H. The difference between the two zodiacs, therefore, is not so much the content of the zodiac but in the calculation of the timing for the starting point of the 1st degree of Aries. 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